Okay, we're done here.
Okay, I'm done with this thread.
Thank you to everyone for your support, and also thank you to those of you who disagreed. I heard a lot of sound arguments on both sides, and I feel better.
If you have anything you really want to say still, you can message me. However, I am closing this, because it seems like the longer this drags on, the more and more it becomes twisted. I keep seeing misunderstandings over and over.
So thank you everyone for your input. I'll consider it all carefully. And as always, I appreciate EGL for being unbiased, even towards their own fashion, and able to give good advice. ^^
Warning: A little long. C:
Okay, I had a little altercation at school today that involved me wearing lolita, and I want some opinions on this. Please read carefully so that you understand.
Warning: A little long. C:
Okay, I had a little altercation at school today that involved me wearing lolita, and I want some opinions on this. Please read carefully so that you understand.
Before I can talk about what happened, you need a little background information.
First of all, I have panic attacks if I'm forced to speak with unfamiliar adults alone, especially if I am in trouble or in any way emotionally unhappy about the situation I'm meeting them in. It's happened before with my counselor, so she knows about what happens, but even she does not understand the immediacy of the situation when it happens, and does understand that I need to be left alone not for just a short time, but for good. I also had a freak out last year where I was brought into a room with a bunch of teachers to talk about my grades, and I told them never to do anything like that. They apparently did not remember.
The second thing you need to know is that I'm incredibly introverted. I do not like to draw attention to myself. I do not speak at all in class, and I hate random people paying attention to me, because then I have to engage in small talk, which is the bane of my existence.
Okay. Now, I can tell you what happened.
I've always loved learning and think education is important, but I think that schools need to recognized their poor introverted students and see that they cannot expect us to thrive in an obviously extrovert oriented environment. I've dealt with this my whole life, and it makes school exhausting and miserable for me. Being close to graduation, way behind in school, and stressed, I am at the peak of my annoyance. I thought I'd wear lolita to school today, because I really needed that, and I needed to be able to carrying around something to make me happy and feel comfortable. I usually wear just like, skinny jeans and a shirt with a hoodie or whatever, something more normal so that I don't stand out. But I hate those clothes, and I couldn't take it today. My friend was going to wear lolita so I wouldn't be alone, but she got sick. :/
My outfit wasn't too big and exciting, and actually not too far from what I've worn before. It was kind of old school sweet with no big hairstyle, no huge shoes, not a super ridiculous JSK or anything. It was cute, and I was really happy with it. I walked through the school and got stares, but they didn't last long. Our students are generally pretty accepting. We don't have too much bullying, we don't have cliques, etc. However, of course there are assholes, but they're just freshman yelling dumb things that are easy to ignore.
So, everything was fine until I was in class, and a monitor came and told me I needed to come with him to student management. He was nice, and the women who works in student management was nice enough, but that was where it ended. I was told to talk to this woman who is a monitor or something, and I automatically knew it was going to be bad.
Basically from there, I had to speak to several adults alone, in pairs, switching around, and I am amazed that I did not have a huge attack or just pass out. And I kept telling them that I needed to not be in that situation, but they didn't listen. But that isn't what I'm talking to EGL about, it's about this.
They told me they had a problem with my clothes, and that I needed to change. At first I didn't realize that they were actually saying that to me. Nobody had a problem with it all day, and I've come to school in stranger clothes. Hell, I've come to school dressed like a goth-loli-pirate, and no one cared at all. So I didn't get why this one instance was different.
At first, they told me that they had received several complaints about it, which I didn't believe. The teachers at my school are fantastic, and they even dress up a lot. Finally I got it from them that just one teacher had said something, because they were annoyed that their students had stared at me and said something as I walked by their room. I should mention, all rooms in our school have huge windows so you can see the hall, and we all stare when someone goes by. It's something to look at that isn't the teacher. It's normal. We have thin walls and you can hear if a class gets loud, so if there were a big disruption, I would have noticed. So, I don't think anyone would have cared except that one teacher, who was not even mine. My teachers didn't care, and neither did the other kids in my class. I was not being distracting at all. One of my teachers actually came into that room where we were to tell me how cute I looked and was really happy
Another thing they said was that we can't wear costumes to school. I explained to them that it is just an obscure fashion (I didn't say the name, because I didn't want to make matters worse), and that it isn't a costume. I also explained how I see what other people wearing is not normal for me, and that I would not be comfortable in it, because it is a costume to me. The so-called "appropriate" clothing at school is just whatever is in style and popular at the time. I'm not comfortable in those clothes, and I have a right to feel comfortable. I understand that I need to not wear super crazy things, but my clothes were not super crazy, just uncommon.
They said that I had been called in several times for wearing clothes to attract attention to myself. This was ridiculous, because I haven't been called in for my clothes since middle school, when they thought me wearing black meant I was going to shoot everyone. I'm used to being harassed for my clothes, but downright misinformation or lying ticked me off. I told them I have never been called in, and that I do not want attention.
So they asked me why I was wearing what I was, and I told them simply. They were my clothes that I wear outside of school. I don't usually wear them to school, because I don't like being harassed by assholes for what I'm wearing when I'm just trying to go to school. (I actually said that and I think called the assistant principal an asshole? I didn't mean to say that and said "excuse my language", but I recognize that it was a rude thing to say.)
They then explained to me that my clothes were just not really in the dress code. So I said yes, they are not in the dress code. There is nothing in there about my clothes. So they said that it is a gray area, and that they have to make judgement on that. I call this gray area the "we get to have this list of rules, but you know, even if you're following the rules, we have the right to judge you no matter what" area. I felt really offended already at my clothes that I spent THREE. HOURS. putting on being insulted over and over again. What I'm telling you is not even half of the things they said. I'm leaving things out so as not to speak in hyperbole, because I don't remember exactly what they said, and I don't want to exaggerate it.
I told them that what I was wearing was fine in past years, and that what girls wore now wasn't. So why just move to one little area of what girls are allowed to wear, instead of making progress in allowing us to wear what we want? They wanted me to just wear my jeans and t-shirt, but honestly, I don't feel comfortable in things even just that boy-ish, and I told them that those are not clothes I like wearing, and that I was wearing my frills because it made me feel okay. I honestly felt persecuted for my femininity today, and even more so, because I could feel them speaking to me like I was a child, and being surprised when I said I was eighteen.
I told them over and over again, just no. Just that word, or something simple like, "I am not going to change my clothes." or, "I don't agree that I should have to change my clothes."
I was being as eloquent as possible and very polite, and I let them know very clearly that I was uncomfortable, I felt insulted and upset with their comments and what they wanted me to do.
They gave me a few options. I could have someone bring me clothes there. I said no, I'm not changing my clothing. I don't feel that it's at all necessary.
They said I could go to choir rehearsal which I was missing (chamber choir a week before a concert, really important. D:), and then come back and stay there until I got my clothes sorted out. I told them no, I'm not changing.
I said I wanted to go home, and they said okay. But then they added that I could go home and change, then come back. So again, I told them, no. I am not. changing. I told them that I was going to go home and not come back that day, and that I had no intention of changing my clothes. So they again tried to state that I could change my clothes, and I don't think they really understood that I was not complying, so I grabbed by bag and my parasol, I told them I was going home and not returning today, and I left.
So that's what happened with us. Let me explain why I'm really upset about it.
I get that they weren't deliberately being horrible to me, but they were. I feel like I'm not properly representing their behavior towards me, because I can't remember the exact quotes and all that happened. I was not really there, because I was just trying not to freak out.
What really made me angry was this.
1. Being told to change my clothes that I did not feel were a problem. My counselor also agreed that she didn't see a problem. Neither had my teachers or other students. I felt as though the argument only went on and was not resolved because the guy talking to me had made up his mind that it had to go and was not open to discussion or questions. I feel that if you are out-argued with good logic, you need to accept that.
2. I was angry that I was essentially bullied into being made to feel so horrible that I felt I needed to leave school. I got up with intention of working hard today, and I was doing fine at school. However, having people insult a huge part of me over and over again and tell me that I was wearing a costume again and again made me feel horrible and like even more of an outcast than usual. D: I felt like I was being bullied out of wearing what I wanted to, and that's why I did not want to comply. If I felt that my clothes were a genuine problem, I would have happily changed them. I am not rebellious just for the sake of being rebellious or because I think people and rules are stupid. I'm too lazy for that.
3. I told them straight out that I was not mentally okay then, and that I needed to be alone. They ignored me completely, in spite of my obviously distressed state, and that was just awful. I hated that I couldn't speak back as much as I wanted to, because I had plenty of great things to say to them. I just couldn't. I physically could not. I am really angry that I told them all the problem, what they could do to avoid it, and what not to do, and they did the worst possible things. They also started calling everyone on my contact list, just bringing more people into it. They called my mom, which is great actually. When on the phone with them, they stated the problem, and she said that she didn't see the problem. So then they called my step-grandpa who lives on the other side of the country, and who was very confused. That resulted in a funny old-man -voicemail, which I always love. <3
So. I wanted to get the opinions of other lolitas. Sorry that was so long.
I'll say one more time, my clothes were not full on crazy lolita. They were toned down, my school is very casual and frankly pretty damn artsy, and it was not a bad time to wear it. I even planned to make sure I didn't have any classes today that would make it inconvenient. Like, I made sure not to do it on a day with astronomy, because I don't think building rockets and frills match very well.
I should say this. My question is not, "Do you think lolita should be allowed in school?" because we've covered that. My belief is that as long as it is casual enough not to be a huge distraction or a nuisance, it's okay.
What I want to know is, do you think I'm correct in not changing my clothes, based on their reasons for wanting me to take it off? I feel I was justified in leaving and refusing to change. I spoke calmly and very politely aside from that asshole part, and I wasn't making any stupid faces or sitting all bad ass. I respect the faculty and all they do for us. But I am not blindly respectful. The ones who were trying to get me to change were rude and mean, and I felt they had no right.
What do you think?
Also, how would you have handled that if you were there, and have you ever worn lolita to school? C: If so, how did that go?
(Also as a note, I'd just like to thank my counselor, who was really nice and trying to be helpful, and thank her for giving me time to try and talk and explain, even though I'm not sure she fully understood. But that's my fault for not being able to speak well at the time. > u>;;)
EDIT:
Here's my school's dress code as stated in the school handbook. These are the rules I signed for and agreed to at the beginning of the year.
"Clothing and Hygiene Expectations:
-All clothing shall be within the bounds of decency and good taste.
-Students dressed inappropriately for school will be given the opportunity to make necessary changes- some dress code violations may be corrected by turning a shirt inside out, covering up with a jacket or sweater or putting on an appropriate shirt. At staff member's discretion, however, a student may be escorted to student management where he/she will be given the opportunity to call home for appropriate attire.
-Excessive bareness is not permitted. "See through" blouses or shirts are not allowed. No bare midriffs or low-cut, revealing tops. Halter tops, strapless tops, and tops with spaghetti straps are not permitted. Tank tops must have at least one-inch, fitted straps.
-Clothing must be sufficient and must be worn to conceal underclothes. Pants must be worn at waist level.
-Chains, spikes, or other objects which might present a safety hazard are prohibited. Inappropriate and/or dangerous items may be confiscated.
-Inappropriate lettering, messages, logos, or pictures are prohibited on clothing, jewelry, backpacks, skin or other personal items. This includes any reference to drugs, alcohol, tobacco, violence, death, satanic themes, sex, racial slurs, disparaging remarks, or any images deemed inappropriate by school officials.
-Displaying any gang sign is strictly prohibited. This may include tattoos, handkerchiefs, suspenders, belts, earrings, jackets or devices associated with group intimidation or gang affiliation. Any group identified by common dress must have administrative approval to be on campus. Bandanas may not be displayed or worn while on campus.
-No hats or head coverings are allowed to be worn in any district building. Hats may be confiscated if a student repeatedly fails to remove it while inside. Exceptions may be made for special activities or school spirit days.
-Shirts and shoes are required at all times.
-Students are expected to demonstrate good hygiene."
They stated nothing about distracting clothing, costumes. It also never states that teachers and administrators have a right to make me change regardless of whether I'm following the rules stated.
Thank you to everyone for your support, and also thank you to those of you who disagreed. I heard a lot of sound arguments on both sides, and I feel better.
If you have anything you really want to say still, you can message me. However, I am closing this, because it seems like the longer this drags on, the more and more it becomes twisted. I keep seeing misunderstandings over and over.
So thank you everyone for your input. I'll consider it all carefully. And as always, I appreciate EGL for being unbiased, even towards their own fashion, and able to give good advice. ^^
Warning: A little long. C:
Okay, I had a little altercation at school today that involved me wearing lolita, and I want some opinions on this. Please read carefully so that you understand.
Warning: A little long. C:
Okay, I had a little altercation at school today that involved me wearing lolita, and I want some opinions on this. Please read carefully so that you understand.
Before I can talk about what happened, you need a little background information.
First of all, I have panic attacks if I'm forced to speak with unfamiliar adults alone, especially if I am in trouble or in any way emotionally unhappy about the situation I'm meeting them in. It's happened before with my counselor, so she knows about what happens, but even she does not understand the immediacy of the situation when it happens, and does understand that I need to be left alone not for just a short time, but for good. I also had a freak out last year where I was brought into a room with a bunch of teachers to talk about my grades, and I told them never to do anything like that. They apparently did not remember.
The second thing you need to know is that I'm incredibly introverted. I do not like to draw attention to myself. I do not speak at all in class, and I hate random people paying attention to me, because then I have to engage in small talk, which is the bane of my existence.
Okay. Now, I can tell you what happened.
I've always loved learning and think education is important, but I think that schools need to recognized their poor introverted students and see that they cannot expect us to thrive in an obviously extrovert oriented environment. I've dealt with this my whole life, and it makes school exhausting and miserable for me. Being close to graduation, way behind in school, and stressed, I am at the peak of my annoyance. I thought I'd wear lolita to school today, because I really needed that, and I needed to be able to carrying around something to make me happy and feel comfortable. I usually wear just like, skinny jeans and a shirt with a hoodie or whatever, something more normal so that I don't stand out. But I hate those clothes, and I couldn't take it today. My friend was going to wear lolita so I wouldn't be alone, but she got sick. :/
My outfit wasn't too big and exciting, and actually not too far from what I've worn before. It was kind of old school sweet with no big hairstyle, no huge shoes, not a super ridiculous JSK or anything. It was cute, and I was really happy with it. I walked through the school and got stares, but they didn't last long. Our students are generally pretty accepting. We don't have too much bullying, we don't have cliques, etc. However, of course there are assholes, but they're just freshman yelling dumb things that are easy to ignore.
So, everything was fine until I was in class, and a monitor came and told me I needed to come with him to student management. He was nice, and the women who works in student management was nice enough, but that was where it ended. I was told to talk to this woman who is a monitor or something, and I automatically knew it was going to be bad.
Basically from there, I had to speak to several adults alone, in pairs, switching around, and I am amazed that I did not have a huge attack or just pass out. And I kept telling them that I needed to not be in that situation, but they didn't listen. But that isn't what I'm talking to EGL about, it's about this.
They told me they had a problem with my clothes, and that I needed to change. At first I didn't realize that they were actually saying that to me. Nobody had a problem with it all day, and I've come to school in stranger clothes. Hell, I've come to school dressed like a goth-loli-pirate, and no one cared at all. So I didn't get why this one instance was different.
At first, they told me that they had received several complaints about it, which I didn't believe. The teachers at my school are fantastic, and they even dress up a lot. Finally I got it from them that just one teacher had said something, because they were annoyed that their students had stared at me and said something as I walked by their room. I should mention, all rooms in our school have huge windows so you can see the hall, and we all stare when someone goes by. It's something to look at that isn't the teacher. It's normal. We have thin walls and you can hear if a class gets loud, so if there were a big disruption, I would have noticed. So, I don't think anyone would have cared except that one teacher, who was not even mine. My teachers didn't care, and neither did the other kids in my class. I was not being distracting at all. One of my teachers actually came into that room where we were to tell me how cute I looked and was really happy
Another thing they said was that we can't wear costumes to school. I explained to them that it is just an obscure fashion (I didn't say the name, because I didn't want to make matters worse), and that it isn't a costume. I also explained how I see what other people wearing is not normal for me, and that I would not be comfortable in it, because it is a costume to me. The so-called "appropriate" clothing at school is just whatever is in style and popular at the time. I'm not comfortable in those clothes, and I have a right to feel comfortable. I understand that I need to not wear super crazy things, but my clothes were not super crazy, just uncommon.
They said that I had been called in several times for wearing clothes to attract attention to myself. This was ridiculous, because I haven't been called in for my clothes since middle school, when they thought me wearing black meant I was going to shoot everyone. I'm used to being harassed for my clothes, but downright misinformation or lying ticked me off. I told them I have never been called in, and that I do not want attention.
So they asked me why I was wearing what I was, and I told them simply. They were my clothes that I wear outside of school. I don't usually wear them to school, because I don't like being harassed by assholes for what I'm wearing when I'm just trying to go to school. (I actually said that and I think called the assistant principal an asshole? I didn't mean to say that and said "excuse my language", but I recognize that it was a rude thing to say.)
They then explained to me that my clothes were just not really in the dress code. So I said yes, they are not in the dress code. There is nothing in there about my clothes. So they said that it is a gray area, and that they have to make judgement on that. I call this gray area the "we get to have this list of rules, but you know, even if you're following the rules, we have the right to judge you no matter what" area. I felt really offended already at my clothes that I spent THREE. HOURS. putting on being insulted over and over again. What I'm telling you is not even half of the things they said. I'm leaving things out so as not to speak in hyperbole, because I don't remember exactly what they said, and I don't want to exaggerate it.
I told them that what I was wearing was fine in past years, and that what girls wore now wasn't. So why just move to one little area of what girls are allowed to wear, instead of making progress in allowing us to wear what we want? They wanted me to just wear my jeans and t-shirt, but honestly, I don't feel comfortable in things even just that boy-ish, and I told them that those are not clothes I like wearing, and that I was wearing my frills because it made me feel okay. I honestly felt persecuted for my femininity today, and even more so, because I could feel them speaking to me like I was a child, and being surprised when I said I was eighteen.
I told them over and over again, just no. Just that word, or something simple like, "I am not going to change my clothes." or, "I don't agree that I should have to change my clothes."
I was being as eloquent as possible and very polite, and I let them know very clearly that I was uncomfortable, I felt insulted and upset with their comments and what they wanted me to do.
They gave me a few options. I could have someone bring me clothes there. I said no, I'm not changing my clothing. I don't feel that it's at all necessary.
They said I could go to choir rehearsal which I was missing (chamber choir a week before a concert, really important. D:), and then come back and stay there until I got my clothes sorted out. I told them no, I'm not changing.
I said I wanted to go home, and they said okay. But then they added that I could go home and change, then come back. So again, I told them, no. I am not. changing. I told them that I was going to go home and not come back that day, and that I had no intention of changing my clothes. So they again tried to state that I could change my clothes, and I don't think they really understood that I was not complying, so I grabbed by bag and my parasol, I told them I was going home and not returning today, and I left.
So that's what happened with us. Let me explain why I'm really upset about it.
I get that they weren't deliberately being horrible to me, but they were. I feel like I'm not properly representing their behavior towards me, because I can't remember the exact quotes and all that happened. I was not really there, because I was just trying not to freak out.
What really made me angry was this.
1. Being told to change my clothes that I did not feel were a problem. My counselor also agreed that she didn't see a problem. Neither had my teachers or other students. I felt as though the argument only went on and was not resolved because the guy talking to me had made up his mind that it had to go and was not open to discussion or questions. I feel that if you are out-argued with good logic, you need to accept that.
2. I was angry that I was essentially bullied into being made to feel so horrible that I felt I needed to leave school. I got up with intention of working hard today, and I was doing fine at school. However, having people insult a huge part of me over and over again and tell me that I was wearing a costume again and again made me feel horrible and like even more of an outcast than usual. D: I felt like I was being bullied out of wearing what I wanted to, and that's why I did not want to comply. If I felt that my clothes were a genuine problem, I would have happily changed them. I am not rebellious just for the sake of being rebellious or because I think people and rules are stupid. I'm too lazy for that.
3. I told them straight out that I was not mentally okay then, and that I needed to be alone. They ignored me completely, in spite of my obviously distressed state, and that was just awful. I hated that I couldn't speak back as much as I wanted to, because I had plenty of great things to say to them. I just couldn't. I physically could not. I am really angry that I told them all the problem, what they could do to avoid it, and what not to do, and they did the worst possible things. They also started calling everyone on my contact list, just bringing more people into it. They called my mom, which is great actually. When on the phone with them, they stated the problem, and she said that she didn't see the problem. So then they called my step-grandpa who lives on the other side of the country, and who was very confused. That resulted in a funny old-man -voicemail, which I always love. <3
So. I wanted to get the opinions of other lolitas. Sorry that was so long.
I'll say one more time, my clothes were not full on crazy lolita. They were toned down, my school is very casual and frankly pretty damn artsy, and it was not a bad time to wear it. I even planned to make sure I didn't have any classes today that would make it inconvenient. Like, I made sure not to do it on a day with astronomy, because I don't think building rockets and frills match very well.
I should say this. My question is not, "Do you think lolita should be allowed in school?" because we've covered that. My belief is that as long as it is casual enough not to be a huge distraction or a nuisance, it's okay.
What I want to know is, do you think I'm correct in not changing my clothes, based on their reasons for wanting me to take it off? I feel I was justified in leaving and refusing to change. I spoke calmly and very politely aside from that asshole part, and I wasn't making any stupid faces or sitting all bad ass. I respect the faculty and all they do for us. But I am not blindly respectful. The ones who were trying to get me to change were rude and mean, and I felt they had no right.
What do you think?
Also, how would you have handled that if you were there, and have you ever worn lolita to school? C: If so, how did that go?
(Also as a note, I'd just like to thank my counselor, who was really nice and trying to be helpful, and thank her for giving me time to try and talk and explain, even though I'm not sure she fully understood. But that's my fault for not being able to speak well at the time. > u>;;)
EDIT:
Here's my school's dress code as stated in the school handbook. These are the rules I signed for and agreed to at the beginning of the year.
"Clothing and Hygiene Expectations:
-All clothing shall be within the bounds of decency and good taste.
-Students dressed inappropriately for school will be given the opportunity to make necessary changes- some dress code violations may be corrected by turning a shirt inside out, covering up with a jacket or sweater or putting on an appropriate shirt. At staff member's discretion, however, a student may be escorted to student management where he/she will be given the opportunity to call home for appropriate attire.
-Excessive bareness is not permitted. "See through" blouses or shirts are not allowed. No bare midriffs or low-cut, revealing tops. Halter tops, strapless tops, and tops with spaghetti straps are not permitted. Tank tops must have at least one-inch, fitted straps.
-Clothing must be sufficient and must be worn to conceal underclothes. Pants must be worn at waist level.
-Chains, spikes, or other objects which might present a safety hazard are prohibited. Inappropriate and/or dangerous items may be confiscated.
-Inappropriate lettering, messages, logos, or pictures are prohibited on clothing, jewelry, backpacks, skin or other personal items. This includes any reference to drugs, alcohol, tobacco, violence, death, satanic themes, sex, racial slurs, disparaging remarks, or any images deemed inappropriate by school officials.
-Displaying any gang sign is strictly prohibited. This may include tattoos, handkerchiefs, suspenders, belts, earrings, jackets or devices associated with group intimidation or gang affiliation. Any group identified by common dress must have administrative approval to be on campus. Bandanas may not be displayed or worn while on campus.
-No hats or head coverings are allowed to be worn in any district building. Hats may be confiscated if a student repeatedly fails to remove it while inside. Exceptions may be made for special activities or school spirit days.
-Shirts and shoes are required at all times.
-Students are expected to demonstrate good hygiene."
They stated nothing about distracting clothing, costumes. It also never states that teachers and administrators have a right to make me change regardless of whether I'm following the rules stated.